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Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

by
Landis Arnold
- 15/02/2020 15:48:36
Lek, Bill and others,

I was somewhat expecting some responses.

My opinion anyway, that this is pretty emblematic of the OCA "functional" issue.  Lots of conversation "about them" but little visible response "to them".  3 functionals chimed in and no response other than this small micro eddy.

Perhaps we coukd form a sub-group and see of we can outline issues, resources and methods for involvement to have clear paths and bridges between elements.

Fog may not seem thick when you are in a forest.  From the outside, it is hard to find the landing strip none the less.

Thoughts?  Methods?  I did log into the wiki referenced above.  Is there one "GitHub Issue" set that coukd be used as a focal point for discussion?

hope to hear more.

Landis Arnold


From: Lek Ecosoft <wipawiij@ecosoft.co.th>
Sent: Feb 13, 2020 7:57 PM
To: Contributors
Subject: Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?

Hello,


I am pure blood functional, who cannot even query database. 

Thank you all to talk about this topic and share many ideas/suggestions. This is a good example of opening space to talk and share but email or mailing list flows and gone, not suits as knowledge and content management.

IMHO, functional consists of End Users and Implementor.

If we talk about an End user, we should have place to chat and ask + knowledge or Content management because they want to decide to use our app or not. If so, how to use it > This should be Easy to access and find information > User documents, user manual.

If we talk about functional Implementor, they should work as a team with technical. I think this group doesn't need Easy tool but it should be simple tool and simple way to work together. Functional spec or Requirements Spec is out of date for agile methodology, no longer writing this for technical. We need to discuss and share different aspects and ideas from Technical and functional then summarise, code and Test absolutely.

> No doubt for runbot for testing but discussion, I would say

> Wiki is easy but not in line with github which is powerful for technical and have to manage?

> +1 github issue and link to google doc/sheet.

Personally, github itself look scary for non-technical but not too difficult to use. Functional who really want to be in, they got strong passion to learn 'new world of techies'. They open thier mind to give and take. On the other hands, github will filter out Newbies because its structure. We have to accept that github born for technical. (Of I am not wrong)

+1 Forum no reason, just experience it.

... TOTB...

1. Let's try to change this thread topic to be Does OCA "really" need implementor functional and user?

 - If the answer is no, it's crystal clear. No need any action.
 - If your answer is yes, I believe you will find the way to let them it and be a part of team.

2. Opensource is an area of technical or hybrid functional while Proprietary is an area of Functional, is this true?

Last but not least, shall technical open mind to learn a new world of Functional?

Thanks all.

Regards,

Wipawii

www.ecosoft.co.th

Your ERP Partner

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020, 06:12 Bill Ennals, <bill@billennals.net> wrote:
Hi Community,

I’m also ‘mostly' functional.  I have no formal IT qualification or education but have self-taught the basics of administering a Ubuntu server and an Odoo CE installation for a small not-for-profit business (reversegarbageqld.com.au) in Australia.  I can’t really code, but I’m a stubborn googler and can do some low-level tinkering and can sometimes get to where I’m aiming for, sometimes not.

It’s taken many years and we’re still only 50% implemented - no POS, public facing website, ecommerce and accounting yet, though all of that should be ready in the next six months.  Started on V7, open upgraded to v8, then leap frogged to V11 via a gruelling export/import process.  It’s been a crazy and unsustainable way to do it in many respects, but our hope is that the efficiency gains of using an integrated ERP will help to generate enough operational profit to be able to engage a professional local implementer, the costs of which (up until now at least) have been prohibitive.

I agree with Landis about the welcoming landing place, and through all of this, the thing that I have most missed is a healthy discussion forum.  Having to piece together clues from the Odoo help forum (which is mostly awful), Stack Overflow, this mailing list and the patchy official documentation has absorbed hundreds of hours of my time, often for no return.  Sure, a comprehensive wiki would be awesome, but that would seem to require a gargantuan effort to make it any more useful than pointers to the current Github repositories.  Github is a little daunting and opaque for non-IT professionals, but it’s not terrible and a healthy community forum with a few good stickies about how to approach navigating the various parts of the Odoo universe for newbies would make it far less daunting.  If the standard of the ‘readme’s was improved, I think a separate wiki might be unnecessary duplication.

Lastly (sorry for the long email), one comparable experience I’ve had lately is mucking about with custom roms on mobile devices, which I know nothing about apart from what I’ve learned from xda-developers.com.  Although it’s far from perfect, if I spend an hour there researching a particular topic or problem I’m having, I can feel pretty confident about whether it’s something that is worth pursuing, or if it’s just going to be a waste of my time, and therefore something I should drop altogther.  A combination of the stickies and guides for newbies, and the vibrant participation of the community there enables that.  I rarely feel that way after an hour of trying to figure out if a particular thing is possible in Odoo - more often I’m left with a bunch of unresolved questions.  Obviously the xda forums member base is huge, but if the Odoo claim about 4 million users is true, then a proper discussion forum should have something to work with - no?

Bill.








On 14 Feb 2020, at 12:21 AM, Landis Arnold <larnold@nomadic.net> wrote:

Well, Being mostly "functional" I would say, first off, there needs to be a place to go and get information, ask questions, profer advise.  Documentation is important, even in Wiki form, but most important is a true and welvoming landing pad and place.  Branches should go out from there to subjects of the different repositories.

As an example.  Information and sharing about upgrade paths and methods.  Fundamental changes, for users and system implementers about requirement changes generation to generation...  Is it possible to skip versions in upgrade sequencing.  say v 8, v10, v12, v14?  If so how?

"Open" needs to be open and not obscure.  Installations and upgrades can be methodical and complex, but they must also be understandable. 

Customization, which is essence, is what OCA is about, should be welcome, and also seen to be something that users can also do without creating a whole repository and running through a week of testing and approvals.  Interface changes, as an example, like moving an "add task" button to a project, or rearranging a menu interface etc.

And on bigger customizations, how to have "funcionals" express a desire for a more efficient work flow.  A "wish list" is different than a "issue" until it becomes one.

Anyway, it is an important subject, how to integrate "functionals" which really everyone is on some level.

Landis Arnold
Nomadic Inc
Colorado USA


Sent from Nine

From: "Pedro M. Baeza (Tecnativa)" <pedro.baeza@tecnativa.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 6:47 AM
To: Contributors
Subject: Re: How can functional people "really" participate in OCA?


Jean-Charles, here there's no such OCA strategy of not wanting functional people, just as Lois says: there's no more physical time to perform what you want to do to attract more people. I still think laziness is a point, because some functional people have already contributed and be part of the community with a low barrier, but it's very easy to say "I'm not able to contribute because things are not easy". Think that we are all employees of a company that pays our time and have a lot of duties, and some of us have invested spare free time for trying to raise OCA, but this time is limited. So any of you can apply for being in the OCA board next year and conduct this, or simply arise at contributor for that specific task this year. My colleagues at board will love some help on this (I'm not anymore there due to the time restrictions I have and after being there during 3 years).

Regards.
<span id="cid:D10EFA06-18B5-49B7-9C55-57158B7F1E0A@home.gateway"><attachment>

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