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Re: Fiscal years and periods in Odoo9

RE: Fiscal years and periods in Odoo9

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Re: Fiscal years and periods in Odoo9

by Ferdinand Gassauer <ferdinand.gassauer@camptocamp.com> - 22/12/2015 19:13:31
On 2015-12-22 16:07, Luc De Meyer wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:001801d13cc8$d62b4220$8281c660$@noviat.com" type="cite">

Frédéric,

 

I agree with your conclusion that periods are definitively gone in the Odoo Editor modules but I don’t see it as a major burden to reintroduce it via the OCA and add a small  upgrade wizard for companies who want to take advantage of OCA and other community modules that allow to run full blown accounting.

 

The bank statements are one example (and as opposed to your arguments it’s especially in the case of electronic bank statements that customers ‘forget’ to enter statements from bank accounts that are less frequently used, also the accounting period solution is a lot cleaner than changing the bank statement date when a period is closed).

 

The invoice needs a period different from the invoice date not only for due date and currency rate calculations but also because supplier invoices can get lost (especial those send by e-mail who get deleted as spam) and hence get entered after VAT declarations.

 

There are many other good reasons to put period back (as expressed already in several mails on this mailing list)

-          A lot easier, more intuitive user interface for accounting reports, VAT declarations, …

-          An object to store fiscal declarations

-          The capability of creating accounting entries (‘Miscellaneous Operations / Opérations Divers (OD)) within a period different from the OD date

-          An more intuitive way to close a period (cf. ‘account_journal_period_close’ OCA module)

-          …

 

The alternative of using the ‘accounting date’ concept is in my opinion a lot more confusing for the end users than to reintroduce the ‘period’ concept that is generally accepted and worked well before.

++++1
<blockquote cite="mid:001801d13cc8$d62b4220$8281c660$@noviat.com" type="cite">

 

Regards,

Luc

 

P.S.

Although I propose that we reintroduce the accounting period, I don’t think we should reintroduce in such a module the ‘special’ periods for year-end opening/close entries.

 

www.noviat.com

Rusatiralaan 1, 1083 Brussel

+32 2 808 86 38

 

<img border=0 width=96 height=33 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D13CCD.7C9B9BB0" alt="cid:image002.jpg@01CE271A.FF53FB90">

 

From: Frédéric Clementi [mailto:frederic.clementi@camptocamp.com]
Sent: dinsdag 22 december 2015 13:38
To: Accounting <accounting@odoo-community.org>
Subject: Re: Fiscal years and periods in Odoo9

 

 

2015-12-22 11:38 GMT+01:00 Luc De Meyer <luc.demeyer@noviat.com>:

>>> Otherwise, regarding bank transactions you never have to handle a date out ouf the period, it is only for supplier invoices 

 

NOT correct.

Bank statements can contain bank costs with deductible VAT.

If you are processing a bank statement after you have entered your VAT declaration you keep the dates of the bank transactions but book it in the next accounting period (we are doing this for years now in the Belgian coda processing module, l10n_be_coda_advanced).

 

 

 

Luc, thanks for this interesting example but I still think it is not an issue for various reason :

  

1 - you can receive an supplier invoice very late (several weeks/months late) but ou not get your bank statement so late (especially with CODA)

2 - Why would you need to have a period/accounting date different from the invoice date : because you want the system calculate properly the due date (based on payment terms if any) and in case of invoice in foreign currency, you want the systeme to use the exchange rate of the invoice date (and not accounting date).

3 - If you do a monthly closing, then you are suppose to post a provision on the bank fees of the month if not paid.

4 - And worst case scenario - Previous month is already lock : You change the date of the bank transaction to the 1st day of the new month (ie: transaction of the 29-June posted on the 1st of July .  It is a common practice in real life which is not ideal I agree but this is no big deal neither if you as long as you do not miss significant expenses/revenus (but again it is usual closing process to handle this issues)

(note that if not locked then just change your June bank statement, there is no issue at all)

 

Hence having the concept of periods is also useful for bank statements.

A module adding a accounting date to the bank statement lines could be interesting but it is not a 'must have' in my view. 

But this does not justify to create a module for periods.

 

Having an OCA module ‘acount_period’ (depending on ‘account_fiscalyear’ which is already there via a PR) will solve a lot since otherwise we’ll end up with many of recreating this same object again.

 

I understand that it eases the port of existing modules but on this other hand Period will never come back in Odoo and you will have to port this field ad vitam aeternam over the next versions (Plus think about consequences on all views, reports...)

 

I think it is an error to create a module for periods, it will cost us more over years than to use the accounting date system.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Luc

 

www.noviat.com

Rusatiralaan 1, 1083 Brussel

+32 2 808 86 38

 

<img border=0 width=96 height=33 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D13CAC.6A6DB070" alt="cid:image002.jpg@01CE271A.FF53FB90">

 

From: Frédéric Clementi [mailto:frederic.clementi@camptocamp.com]
Sent: maandag 21 december 2015 17:08
To: Accounting <accounting@odoo-community.org>
Subject: Re: Fiscal years and periods in Odoo9

 

 

 

2015-12-21 16:08 GMT+01:00 Jean Sébastien HEDERER ASPerience <hedererjs@asperience.fr>:

I'd like to know in v9.0 accounting what accountant think of this: CB payment made on june for example that appears in bank statementfor july. payment will be in june reports for bank. bank statement will not correspond

 

You mean, because your bank statement is for ex. from the 5/05 until the 5/07 and you call it June statement ?

 

Otherwise, regarding bank transactions you never have to handle a date out ouf the period, it is only for supplier invoices 

 

 




Cordialement
Jean-Sébastien Hederer

 

----------------message d'origine-----------------
De: Bidoul@pad.odoo-community.org
A: Accounting [accounting@odoo-community.org]
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 13:23:25 -0000
----------------------------------------------------------

 

Frédéric,

 

What do you think of merging fiscal year and fiscal period in the same concept?

 

 

Since fiscalyear as implemented in the PR is just a name, date_start, date_end, and it's only used for reporting, we could merge everything in the same table so users can configure their predefined reporting periods as they need (months, quarters, years, or anything else, or combine).

 

-sbi

 

Stéphane Bidoul | @SBidoul

Acsone sa/nv | http://acsone.eu/ | +32 2 888 3120

 

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 2:07 PM, Frédéric Clementi <frederic.clementi@camptocamp.com> wrote:

Ok, but if you want to submit to OCA, I suggest that you build the period like it has been done in account_fiscalyear and create a module with a dependency on account_fiscalyear so will all be on the same page.

 

Many thanks

  

camptocamp
 

INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS

BY OPEN SOURCE EXPERTS

 

Frédéric Clementi

Project Manager 

Business Solutions

 

 

2015-12-21 13:38 GMT+01:00 Houssine BAKKALI <houssine.bakkali@gmail.com>:

 

 

2015-12-21 13:08 GMT+01:00 Frédéric Clementi <frederic.clementi@camptocamp.com>: 

 

 

2015-12-21 11:23 GMT+01:00 Houssine BAKKALI <houssine.bakkali@gmail.com>:

if I understand it well. it recreating the concept of period but not the way it was done earlier version 9.
 

we just made a demo to the accountatns of a company and they was a bit surprised to don't be able to close a year or a period. So locking on closed period and closed fiscal year would enough for them.

 

If you explain that instead of locking Period of January & February, you select a locking date up until the 28th of Feb, where is the issue ?

 

a looking date looks a bit less accountant users friendly, having the concept of period back without the period_id stuff.

you will be looking in which period the posting date is located and check the state of the period. lock the post if it's closed, allow it if not.
 

fiscal year locking could works on the same basis AFAIS

 

I think that like this we get the best of the two worlds. But maybe I'm missing something.
 

 

 

However, it is unacceptable that there is no more permanent locking on fiscal year, I agree

 

 

do there is a request for unallowing by default posting outside actual period? it could be a locking too

I do not think this feature exists anymore

 

ok this won't be hard to have it back through ir_config_param or something else.

 

 

 

 

2015-12-21 10:38 GMT+01:00 Nicolas Jeudy <nicolas@sudokeys.com>:

Hello,


To update Frédéric response which I approve :), if you want to close some period, you just have to improve locking system and use date to date filters .. if you want to close 03/2015 period, add a list of date to date closing records for example 01/03/2015 to 31/03/2015 and add this in the write / create / delete filters.

+1 

Do not reimplement a field period_id, it would be a mistake that you will have to carry over all odoo next versions.

 

 

 

Nicolas JEUDY

 

 

Le 2015-12-21 10:07, Frédéric Clementi a écrit :

Hello,

  For your information, we have already created a module account_fiscalyear -> see PR : https://github.com/OCA/account-financial-reporting/pull/144/files

This is very basic : just a way to set the start/end date of a fy for reporting purpose. 

 

However, I am worry if you go in the direction of re-creating periods. 

 

Let me explain why :

 

When we created few years ago the financial reports webkit we wanted these reports able to calculate on the fly the initial balance. Second point was that in the wizard we offered the possibility to select rage of periods OR a range of dates.

 

Quickly, we realized that it was impossible to calculate the initial balance based on dates selection because in Odoo date can be out of periods... and only periods are important to calculate accounting balance.

 

In the end, we had to drop the initial balance calculation functionality when user was using dates instead of periods. (and I received so many questions about this...) 

 

In version 9, I think the accounting date solve this issue we have for several years and as an ex-accountant myself I honnestly think that I can live without periods if I still can post supplier invoices at an accounting date. In fact, this solution is just perfect.

 

I also add that if you re-create periods, you will probably have to adpat the locking entry system and analysis views, ...

 

 

 

 

  

camptocamp

INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS

BY OPEN SOURCE EXPERTS

 

Frédéric Clementi

Project Manager 

Business Solutions

 

2015-12-21 1:22 GMT+01:00 Eric Caudal <eric.caudal@elico-corp.com>:

Maybe you could push to the OCA as WIP your job and/or first start a roadmap about it.
I personally dont think it is necessary to redevelop everything for the periods and stick to Odoo's new behavior based on date (to automatically indicate in which period it is).
We would need control on periods in AE for fiscal closing and filters in reports mainly.

--
Eric Caudal [Founder and CEO]
Skype: elico.corp. Phone: + 86 186 2136 1670 (Cell), + 86 21 6211 8017/27/37 (Office)
Elico Shanghai (Hong Kong/Shenzhen/Singapore) Odoo Gold Partner, best Odoo Partner 2014 for APAC

On 12/21/2015 04:38 AM, Mathieu Laflamme wrote:

<blockquote cite="mid:CAB6F1JU-YQdUNhf+z9ohFDDM07sqpM=sv2uXTZy+m_KCO-HZ0g@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">

I can share the little we have. Having a common base for period is necessary I think.

On Sun, Dec 20, 2015, 14:52 Jean Sébastien HEDERER ASPerience <hedererjs@asperience.fr> wrote:

ok, but is your effort shared or shareable ?

 

----------------message d'origine-----------------
De: Kevin.McMenamin@solnet.co.nz
A: Accounting [accounting@odoo-community.org]
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 18:22:48 -0000
----------------------------------------------------------

 

I have done the same - just added back period and fiscal year and made functional fields on account invoice and account move line - avoids having to change a lot of modules plus accountants think in periods so makes more sense to me.

Kevin McMenamin
ERP Capability Manager

Mobile  +64 22 651 3753
Phone  +64 9 977 5805
Email   kevin.mcmenamin@solnet.co.nz

Solnet Solutions Limited
Level 19, Crombie Lockwood
191 Queen Street, Auckland 1010
PO Box 6619, Auckland 1141

www.solnet.co.nz  




From:        Mathieu Laflamme <mathieu.laflamme@gmail.com>
To:        "Accounting" <accounting@odoo-community.org>,
Date:        21/12/2015 07:08 a.m.
Subject:        Re: Fiscal years and periods in Odoo9




Since we have made modules that was using the task period, we basically just added it back disconnected of everything else... We didn't inherit any of the Odoo module yet.

We would have to prevent creating invoices on closed period and add new filters in invoice views to search invoice by period. I think about filters to show last period invoices, previous period, last fiscal year... That's what I plan to develop.

Does it make sense? I didn't look at v8 code to see what else the period was doing but that's what we will need.

It baffles me that they removed that!


On Sun, Dec 20, 2015, 08:53 Jean Sébastien HEDERER ASPerience <hedererjs@asperience.fr> wrote:
ok, in which module?
 


Cordialement
Jean-Sébastien Hederer
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----------------message d'origine-----------------
De: Mathieu Laflamme [mathieu.laflamme@gmail.com]
A: Accounting [accounting@odoo-community.org]
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 11:37:57 -0000
----------------------------------------------------------
 

Hi,

We reintegrated the periods in v9 but it's still at an early stage.

 
On Sun, Dec 20, 2015, 06:08 Jean Sébastien HEDERER ASPerience <hedererjs@asperience.fr> wrote:

Hi,

I'd like to know if there is a group of people working to reimplement fiscal years and periods in Odoo 9? I'd like to be involved in group and help.
 


Cordialement
Jean-Sébastien Hederer

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