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Re: A meeting with the functionals that feel excluded by the OCA

Re: A meeting with the functionals that feel excluded by the OCA

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Re: A meeting with the functionals that feel excluded by the OCA

by
Holger Brunn
- 27/09/2017 20:01:33 
> Do you think this is a good idea, and would it be possible for
> the board to organize such a discussion during the Odoo Experience this
> October?

I think this is a good idea, still I prefer written communication. My reason 
to reply to this message is the linked statement that OCA is hostile to 
newcomers and too technical.

I disagree about the first part, and claim that a technical community cannot be 
too technical. If it is for you, you should read more.

My reply is not directed at the author of this tweet whom I don't know, I use 
the impersonal general `you` here.

- an ERP is a very complex piece of software. If you're not very technical 
(and sometimes pedantic) here, things go to hell very fast. You should thank 
fortune on your knees that there are people willing to dive into this and 
receive the accompanying brain damage. Charming talks don't produce software, 
technical people with a technical mindset, which might sometimes come with 
somewhat peculiar standards of communication and behavior, are. And yes, I'm 
very aware that said technical people tend to produce ${whatever horribly 
unusable software you hate, emacs in my case} without enough input from and 
respect for the functional side.

- you might be a big shot wherever you come from, but as a newcomer you'll 
have to earn your reputation as everybody else. That's not fun, but that's how 
it goes.

- I consider it insulting when I have to point a newcomer to anything that is 
linked in the 'Contribute' menu on https://odoo-community.org. If a reply 
where I express this sentiment is perceived as me being hostile, so be it, but 
I think my time is much better spent writing new code or fixing existing code 
than holding an adult person's hand while reading. If you don't bother to 
spend some time informing yourself, why should I bother to waste my time 
informing you? The same applies to standard language/library/framework 
documentation.

Hostile? Have a look at the very first comment in an oca repo I could find in my 
inbox of a quite recent newcomer: https://github.com/OCA/server-tools/pull/
404#issuecomment-205371820

If you search up a bit, Dave was embraced head to toe by the OCA almost 
instantly. Check the current board members. Magic? Coincidence? Prejudice? No, 
this is a case of reaping what you sow. You start small. You're humble. You 
don't come into a new group and order other people around. You read stuff. You 
listen. You read more. And listen again. You contribute in a way that makes it 
simple for the reviewers. This is a very important point: If you want to make 
a useful contribution, it's part of your job to place yourself into the 
reviewer's shoes and make it as convenient as possible for her. As there is 
way too much work to do for way too few people, you must optimize your 
contribution for review, not for your own convenience. And you follow up on 
comments. Fast. When people take some of the little time they have to help you 
improve your contribution, it's insulting to ignore that.

Note that I wrote `contribution` and not `code` on purpose, because the exact 
same applies to any non-code contributions too.

So of course, I'm sure there are instances of hostile replies to newcomers, 
and stupid ones, and impolite ones, there are a lot of OCA people, but I'm 
also very convinced that some important portion of the actions that are seen 
as such can be explained with the above.

-- 
Therp - Maatwerk in open ontwikkeling

Holger Brunn - Ontwerp en implementatie

mail: holger@therp.nl
web: http://therp.nl

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